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Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:38 pm
by Tye Botting
From the old boards...

Tauhid

Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Started at Sun Mar 7 19:56:21 2004 IP4.34.133.230 Sounds like a silly question, and maybe it is because I don't know if that's the right question to ask.

I'm not quite sure what's legal or illegal to be brought in the open here in TX; meaning if a policeguy randomly stops you and finds this weapon, it should not get you arrested like..for example: uh.. a bazooka maybe?

I was thinking more of something like a cane, pocket knife etc (hey didn't jet li used a belt to whack his opponent in a movie?)


ArteXerxes

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #1 Posted at Sun Mar 7 20:11:14 2004 IP68.84.86.140 Gonna go with a stick. It's not lethal really and can be used more for teaching lessons than injuring someone.

There's a strike in Eskrima that I'm sure is in many styles, it's called a Wik-Tik and literally means "flip-hit." It's real easy to do and is extremely painful. I believe Balintawak Eskrima focuses a great deal on this strike - so if you've seen Balintawak, you've seen wik-tiks.

Arte


Dan N

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #2 Posted at Mon Mar 8 16:31:05 2004 IP165.91.177.45 The wittik is a good lesson...one I hope not to learn. Ouch!

Besides my Fists of Fury and Chris' Oblivion Kick, I wouldn't mind having my keys as a weapon. Besides the obvious gouging, pressure point applications and such, they do open my car and I can drive away without getting hurt...cheesy One thing they are really good for though is distraction. Throwing them at an opponent's chest tends to activate the human instinct of catching objects. Now they're tied up for a brief moment and if I have Arte's Cane Of Knowledge(see School of Pain, Joint Locks, and Throws for description or just look up Arnis) , it's over.


thunder1111

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #3 Posted at Mon Mar 8 19:21:46 2004 IP68.42.185.195 Umbrella

Ice scraper (for the car)


astrogrub

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #4 Posted at Tue Mar 9 07:13:19 2004 IP209.179.32.152 Certain flashlights are useful. This one isn't out yet but should be OK:

http://www.surefire.com.hk/Flashlight/E2D.htm

Some Pepper sprays might be Ok although not exactly hand-to-hand this one can double as sort of a "kubotan"

http://www.cutleryshoppe.com/product1.c ... uct_ID=800


Dan S

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #5 Posted at Wed Mar 10 01:12:10 2004 IP204.210.96.119 I like stick and umbrella.

If you are going to look at improvised weapons, most of the stuff in your toolkit would work well, as would a tire iron.

If it's an improvised weapon, don't forget the jacket. Utilize the catch reflex Dan N spoke of, by tossing the
jacket at the head. First bonus, you get a few seconds where he can't see you to close the gap and do your favorite "after the distraction" action. More specifically, the leading arm tends to go up to intercept the jacket.
Free rib shots.


Dan N

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #6 Posted at Wed Mar 10 01:27:52 2004 IP152.163.253.100 The jacket idea is great Dan. Everyone loves extra bonus rib shots(except the person receiving them) devious Still when you mention the jacket I can't help but think of that scene in Happy Gilmore where he pulls the guy's shirt over his head and then lets him have it...it always kills me.

On the note of umbrellas, it would be a lot cooler if the umbrella had an explosive emergency propulsion mechanism. you know, to impale them and then open the umbrella...body parts everywhere...hey that'd make a pretty cool fatality...


Tye Botting
Administrator

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #7 Posted at Wed Mar 10 02:53:48 2004
Last Modified at Wed Mar 10 03:50:39 2004 by Tye Botting IP66.157.164.126 I wouldn't be throwing the jacket, but rather using it as its own flexible weapon, for trapping and binding like an extra couple of hands. Kind of like that shirt-thing I showed you, but more still. Hopefully, Mike Casto will join in on this thread when he gets a chance.


Dan S

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #8 Posted at Wed Mar 10 03:49:38 2004 IP204.210.96.119
If you have the flexible weapon training to make a jacket/towel trap toy work, that's cool (I'd love to have some). I was mostly trying to suggest simple what you could do to enhance current skills (that doesn't involve giving the bad guy your car keys.) happy


Tye Botting
Administrator

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #9 Posted at Wed Mar 10 03:57:32 2004 IP66.157.164.126 Fair enough, Dan S, and good point about the keys not going to the opponent.

Yep the weapon to use certainly depends on training, opportunity, threat, level of force, etc.

Back to the original question, though - I'd have to agree with Arte (again!), the stick is a perfect choice; perceived as nonlethal, not imposing (could be walking cane), and generally fits in with a little imagination.

For me, I like to carry my elbows as my everyday non-illegal weapon.


Dan S

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #10 Posted at Wed Mar 10 06:50:31 2004 IP204.210.96.119 I want to change my answer.

No umbrella/stick/jacket/keys.

I want Tye's elbows with me if I'm somewhere I need a weapon.


Brett

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #11 Posted at Wed Mar 10 07:24:22 2004 IP208.180.67.86 dood, this cop came to our overly happy self-defense class the other day, and he was talking about all this stuff like pepper spray, keys, etc.

one of the things that he talked about was this stick looking thing. i dunno what its called, but its about 4 to 6 inches long and about 1/4" or maybe 1/2" in diameter, so small enough that you could carry it in your pocket.

at first it looked overly happy, but once he started describing it, it was cool as hell. you can like do these traps and stuff with it pretty easily, as well as if you jab someone with the end of it, it would hurt like hell.

Good Fight.


Dan N

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #12 Posted at Wed Mar 10 14:40:55 2004 IP165.91.177.45 So it's okay to give the guy your jacket, but not your keys?(I thought the whole point was to dominate the person and after finishing with them take your keys back...and if you're really bad take theirs too) bandit And Dan...exactly how do you plan on throwing Tye's elbows at them?


Dan S

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #13 Posted at Wed Mar 10 22:10:40 2004
Last Modified at Wed Mar 10 22:12:38 2004 by Dan S IP204.210.96.119 Just carry around Tye's disembodied elbows. You don't need to throw them.


kai-man

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #14 Posted at Wed Mar 10 23:26:30 2004 IP10.1.20.45 *chuckle*...Tye's elbows...memories of pain...i think i still have bruises from them...grin


Chris Rivers

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #15 Posted at Thu Mar 11 18:18:36 2004 IP152.163.253.100 Non-illegal weapons---he he he, here we go.
1.Salt and pepper packets, the kind you get from fast food places, good for blinding adversaries, hurt too, plus completely innocent.
2.Belt!, very underrated weapon, esp. if you have a big belt buckle!
3.Keys, cutting, scraping and various other mean things.
4.Shoes!, can be thrown, good for distracting opponents giving one tome to attack or escape.
5.Pens, Pencils-this one is fairly obvious.
6.Pool cue, leg of a barstool/chair or any other stick, once again obvious.
7.Human Waste! Nothing is more destracting or demoralizing than having crap flung all over you (I don't know this from experience), plus it can have the same effect as poisoning if you get it right.
Aahhh, I could go on and on, but I'm sure this is enough.


R. Botting

Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #16 Posted at Fri Mar 12 06:56:14 2004 IP66.157.164.126 I prefer to carry what I call my "bonker". It is my Nalgene bottle half full of water with a caribiner clip attached to it. Swing it around with an unsuspecting whap to the bridge of the nose and i can only imagine the enjoyment i would get from their pain. Plus, a half empty water bottle looks pretty harmless anyways.


barr

Re: Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #17 Posted at Sun Mar 14 21:04:22 2004 IP199.216.246.56 Keys seems the most obvious to me. Very effective, small and for the most part harmless if taken from you. The water bottle idea is interesting, I've never thought of it. As for this one:


On Thu Mar 11 18:18:36 2004, Chris Rivers wrote: (read quoted post)7.Human Waste! Nothing is more destracting or demoralizing than having crap flung all over you (I don't know this from experience), plus it can have the same effect as poisoning if you get it right.


I teach women's self defense and this is one of the things I tell them to do if someone is trying to rape them, deficate or urinate on the attacker. Sounds gross, but I've heard from many women that it has proven effective........


Mike Casto

Re: Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #18 Posted at Mon Mar 22 13:35:00 2004 IP68.210.132.101

On Wed Mar 10 02:53:48 2004, Tye Botting wrote: (read quoted post)I wouldn't be throwing the jacket, but rather using it as its own flexible weapon, for trapping and binding like an extra couple of hands. Kind of like that shirt-thing I showed you, but more still. Hopefully, Mike Casto will join in on this thread when he gets a chance.


Yup. I love flexible weapons. Personally, I'll use whatever's at hand. Might be a bottle of water or a book. Might be my clothes or those of my attacker. Might be a towel or jacket that I'm carrying. Might be a ballpoint pen. Whatever I get hold of - I'm not real picky wink

If you check my website at http://impactacademy.com/videos - there's a clip there called "Montage from Flexible Weapons Workshop" where I'm showing some stuff with jacket and t-shirt.

Also, check http://asianfightingarts.com/catalog - my primary instructor has a training video on flexible weapons available there. It's *very* good.

Mike


Tye Botting
Administrator

Re: Re: Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #19 Posted at Mon Mar 22 17:13:37 2004 IP204.196.55.102

On Mon Mar 22 13:35:00 2004, Mike Casto wrote: (read quoted post)Yup. I love flexible weapons. Personally, I'll use whatever's at hand. Might be a bottle of water or a book. Might be my clothes or those of my attacker. Might be a towel or jacket that I'm carrying. Might be a ballpoint pen. Whatever I get hold of - I'm not real picky wink

If you check my website at http://impactacademy.com/videos - there's a clip there called "Montage from Flexible Weapons Workshop" where I'm showing some stuff with jacket and t-shirt.

Also, check http://asianfightingarts.com/catalog - my primary instructor has a training video on flexible weapons available there. It's *very* good.


Yep, heard good things about that video, and I should probably get a copy. I like the idea of flexible weapons, though I must admit that's not anywhere near a specialty. I do agree that anything can be a weapon and that you shouldn't be picky when it comes to that - time spent being picky is time spent being dead! wink

I'll check out the montage and probably eventually get the video - a well-done video on that subject could probably be something one could get some good ideas from video. In general though and IMHO, vids are not the best place to pick up MA knowledge. As a supplement or brain-starting thing, they can be helpful though. Thanks for the links! I'm headed there now...

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 1:39 pm
by Tye Botting
Page 2, from the old boards...

Mike Casto

Re: Re: Re: Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #20 Posted at Tue Mar 23 05:00:54 2004 IP68.210.147.139

QuoteI'll check out the montage and probably eventually get the video - a well-done video on that subject could probably be something one could get some good ideas from video. In general though and IMHO, vids are not the best place to pick up MA knowledge. As a supplement or brain-starting thing, they can be helpful though. Thanks for the links! I'm headed there now...


Absolutely. Text is purely for philosophy/intellectual transmission. Vid is mostly for phil/int but is also a great medium for notes/reference material - it's particularly useful to film yourself doing the material so you can reference it later. And vid can be good for an introduction to things. But, in MA, hands on is an absolute must if we ever want to be functional with any of it.

As Guru Ken puts it, "We have to fulfill the learning triangle. We have to see it [done properly from the outside], feel it [done properly on us], and do it [with supervision until we're doing it properly]." Text, even with photos, really doesn't cover any of those bases because we don't get to see it done in real-time at all. Good vid can cover the "see it" aspct - but even then, you never get to see it from angles that aren't on the vid, you can't ask it questions, etc. Hands on is an absolute must.

But this video, IMO, is well worth the money. It's got a lot of good material on it and it's presented in as much of a conceptual manner as possible so that it can be incorporated with the techniques the viewer already knows. As Guru Ken puts it at one point on the vid, "We usually kind of forget we've got the weapon. We just do what we normally do and their head kind of gets caught in the weapon." (It sounds a lot better than it reads happy )

Mike


Tye Botting
Administrator

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #21 Posted at Wed Mar 24 02:29:13 2004 IP65.0.42.38

QuoteAs Guru Ken puts it, "We have to fulfill the learning triangle. We have to see it [done properly from the outside], feel it [done properly on us], and do it [with supervision until we're doing it properly]." ... Good vid can cover the "see it" aspct - but even then, you never get to see it from angles that aren't on the vid, you can't ask it questions, etc. Hands on is an absolute must.

But this video, IMO, is well worth the money. It's got a lot of good material on it and it's presented in as much of a conceptual manner as possible so that it can be incorporated with the techniques the viewer already knows. As Guru Ken puts it at one point on the vid, "We usually kind of forget we've got the weapon. We just do what we normally do and their head kind of gets caught in the weapon." (It sounds a lot better than it reads happy )


I like the Ken quote in the first paragraph - I may keep it if that's cool. And your comment after is a definite!

I'll probably end up getting the vid before L-Fest and Lansdale, so I can ask you any questions I might have. Real people make it, well, real. wink

I was just watching an old vid of Prof. Presas working with me on some early Tapi-Tapi drills - amazing the stuff he showed! Both what I had forgotten and what he had foreshadowed of later stuff was a real eye-opener. I need to get some of those niceties now that I can see them...


Fire and Rain

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Non-illegal (hand2hand) weapons.. what would you bring?
Reply #22 Posted at Fri Jun 18 21:31:47 2004 IP24.175.151.195

Quote"We have to fulfill the learning triangle. We have to see it [done properly from the outside], feel it [done properly on us], and do it [with supervision until we're doing it properly]."


I agree with Tye. That's really, really good stuff.